Posted by new system on March 09, 2020 at 09:47:43:
In Reply to: Re: Seeking Clarity posted by Playoff Guru on March 08, 2020 at 22:23:17:
: : : : : : : : I am trying to make sense of the state playoffs seeding, and I would appreciate any thoughtful insight.
: : : : : : : : I want to use D4 state bracket as an example, there are others, but this is the most obvious injustice. Bot Artesia and Ganesha were as the SS D5 champs (AA and A respectively), but CIF decided to move both programs up to D4 for state. Ganesha gets the 13th seed and Artesia the 16th seed. Lucky Artesia, they got to play Lancaster in the opening round, and they got blown out. However, Ganesha was able to pull off the upset.
: : : : : : : : Turning to the D5 state bracket, San Jacinto Valley (SJV), S. Berandino, and Rubidoux all advance to the next round. This despite the fact that Artesia defeated both SJV and S. Berandino in route to the SS D5 AA title. But because of the seeding of the state, Artesia is done for the year. Ganesha has a shot at getting to the quarter finals, but this is besides the point, both of these teams should still be in D5 for state. And if this were the case they would have had a shot at advancing to the states capital to represent the SS.
: : : : : : : : This seems like a grave injustice to those, and others, kids that are forced to play up and get a beat down. All the while, the teams that they have already defeated in the SS playoffs get to continue to advance in the state playoffs.
: : : : : : : : Perhaps I am missing something, but why didn't these programs stay in D5 for state, and then give Lancaster a first round bye? The obvious answer would be money, no? More games, more money. Unfortunately, for Artesia they won't have an opportunity play on. And Ganesha will face a similar story when the run into Lancaster next week.
: : : : : : : : Am I missing something, or is this an issue (one of many) that CIF needs to address?
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: : : : : : : The southern section puts teams like Artesia and Ganesha in lower divisions because of their power points but in reality these are big schools playing small schools. In the old system they would never be in division 5. They should be happy they get to dominate in the southern section playoffs because the state playoffs aren't going to give you the same cakewalk.
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: : : : : : It's really simple. Ganesha and Artesia proved they are better than San Jacinto, San Bernardino and Rubidoux. Therefore, they are in the higher division for state. You think they should be "rewarded" by being in Division V? Artesia, for one, has already been given enough cakewalks and breaks. By the way, ANY of the teams that qualified for the Division 4AA playoffs would have won Division 5AA over Artesia and the rest of the teams there.
: : : : : have you been to a D4 or D5 state playoff game, at a host site, this is not the CIF state trying to make money
: : : : It has to do with competitive equity. Once the section playoffs end teams are all ranked. The higher the rank, the higher the division will be that the team will be placed in for state. If a team finished ahead of another team in the section, that team will be seeded higher in the state tournament.
: : : Itís all turned to crap. Let some crappy teams win a championship. BS go back to 2 divisions, big school and small school like the good old days
: : There's always one moron that believes big school and little school philosophy. School size has nothing to do with competitive equity especially when private schools don't have to abide school or district boundaries. The system has flaws but overall it works. It will impossible to appease everyone.
: CIF playoffs and State are a joke in the lower divisions. As all the teams that did poorly get to play while the good teams get eliminated in the higher divisions.
Last year, CIF switched they way they placed teams into the state playoffs...
Once CIF is over, there is a committee that meets and ranks the Open teams as well as every team that made it to CIF semifinals in every division (1-44)....
Open - 8
1 - 4
2AA - 4
2A - 4
3AA - 4
3A - 4
4AA - 4
4A - 4
5AA - 4
5A - 4
So Lancaster, per your example, played in 3AA and lost in semis to Santa Monica...
To be ranked #1 in Divsion 4 in state means they were ranked as the 29th best team in the CIF Southern Section.. The CIF State committee then takes the 16 teams submitted in Division 4 and ranks them by perceived strength, records, etc.
Paloma Valley was in 4AA and got moved up to D3 for state... They were ranked by state as the #4 team in D3.....
Hopefully that helps you... CIF did this because the SS was getting whooped by the northern section in the finals because the northern section was placing better teams in the lower divisions to win state titles..
It all boils down to politics and egos.. not really money when only 80 people are sitting in a gym watching a state regional semifinal...
Good luck to all the teams playing tomorrow night.. it is a great accomplishment no matter what the adults say on this board....
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