Re: .500 rule


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Posted by Common Sense on February 01, 2017 at 20:55:44:

In Reply to: Re: .500 rule posted by Coach on February 01, 2017 at 11:13:45:

: : : : : : : : : : : : : Looking at 3A there are only about 25 teams above .500. Is CIF really going to punish those teams that are in tough leagues and competed in tough pre-league games to prepare?

: : : : : : : : : : : : : What a catch 22.......you schedule tougher non-league games to prepare for league but then get punished.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : If you schedule cream-puffs then you aren't really preparing your kids for battle.

: : : : : : : : : : : : #5 Moorpark 11-13
: : : : : : : : : : : : #7 Crossroads 9-13
: : : : : : : : : : : : #10 Oxnard 10-12

: : : : : : : : : : : : Most Likely will drop below .500

: : : : : : : : : : : : #12 St. Marys 12-11
: : : : : : : : : : : : #16 Simi 11-10

: : : : : : : : : : : : Are these teams OUT ?

: : : : : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : : : : : This rule is one of the most idiotic rules CIF has ever come with. What is the rationale behind it? Don't say avoiding the first round blowouts........those will happen anyway. Why wouldn't CIF want the extra $$$$ from a bigger bracket?

: : : : : : : : : : : You need a .500 record to apply for an at-large bid. If your team is top half of league then they continue to be automatic qualifiers regardless of overall record. The .500 rule for at-large teams still stinks as many good teams/programs will be out due to pre-season and league scheduling.

: : : : : : : : : : Top half of league is automatically qualified regardless.

: : : : : : : : : : Moorpark and Simi Valley are currently 2nd and 3rd in their league and look like they will both make it.

: : : : : : : : : : Oxnard is currently 3rd in their league and needs to beat Channel Islands again and they are in. (Beat them by 14 last time.)

: : : : : : : : : : Crossroads has a solid chance of getting in. If they lose to Viewpoint on Thursday, they might not though.

: : : : : : : : : : St. Mary's looks like they are not going to get top half of league, however, if they go 1-2 in their final games in league (same outcome as their first go around) then they will be bottom half with a 13-13 record. So it really depends on their last non-league game in the shootout at JSerra. Then again, if they lose to St Gens, that they are out.

: : : : : : : : : : Despite hovering around .500, I would bet four or even all five make the playoffs.

: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : Crossroads and Viewpoint play in the Gold Coast league, home of Sierra Canyon and Windward.

: : : : : : : : : Their league is strange as they have a tournament at the end of the year (like in college), which is how I believe they determine their league champion and automatic qualifiers.

: : : : : : : St. Mary's is interesting because they are listed at 12-12 but one of those is a forfeit win at the beginning of the season. They have another win listed that day, so I am wondering if they are really 11-12. I hope they make it.

: : : : : : : You can be under .500 if you place in your league.. some leagues have 2 qualifiers, some have 3 qualifiers and some have 4 qualifiers depending on the size of the league.

: : : : : : : In the Crossroads, Viewpoint, Paraclete league, they will likely finish 3, 4, 5 (Crossroads, Paraclete, Viewpoint).. Not sure how their tournament works but I believe 3 plays 4 and 5 plays 6 (6 would be Brentwood), but I might be wrong (and Brentwood could get 5 if they beat Paraclete since I don't know their tiebreaking system).....2 of those 3 will get automatics.. if Viewpoint is the non-automatic, the will get in as an at-large due t an above .500 record. Crossroads and Paraclete need to get an auto or else they will not be above .500.

: : : : : : : Moorpark is pretty safe as long as they don't lose everyone of their remaining league games.

: : : : : : : Oxnard is fine -- they will finish 2nd or 3rd in their league and get a auto.

: : : : : : : 3A rankings right now:

: : : : : : : 1 Los Osos (In -- 2nd place)
: : : : : : : 2 Flintridge Prep (In -- League Champion)
: : : : : : : 3 Lancaster (In -- 2nd place)
: : : : : : : 4 Viewpoint (In -- At-Large or place)
: : : : : : : 5 Moorpark (In -- 2nd or 3rd place)
: : : : : : : 6 LaSalle (In -- 2nd place or league Champ)
: : : : : : : 7 Crossroads (In -- 3rd or 4th place)
: : : : : : : 8 Rancho Verde (In -- At-Large and scary)
: : : : : : : 9 Irvine (In -- 3rd place)
: : : : : : : 10 Oxnard (In -- 3rd place)
: : : : : : : 11 Beaumont (In -- 3rd place or At-Large)
: : : : : : : 12 St. Mary's Academy (Maybe -- At-Large)
: : : : : : : 13 Shadow Hills (In -- League Champion)
: : : : : : : 14 Louisville (In - At-Large)
: : : : : : : 15 Granite Hills (In 3rd Place and best player)
: : : : : : : 16 Simi Valley (In - 3rd place or at-large)

: : : : : : : Others (no particular order):
: : : : : : : 17 Savanna (In - League Champion)
: : : : : : : 18 Montebello (In -- 2nd place)
: : : : : : : 19 Marina (In -- place in league)
: : : : : : : 20 Villa Park (In -- place in league)
: : : : : : : 21 Perris (In -- place in league or at-large)
: : : : : : : 22 SLO (In -- at-large, must win 1 more)
: : : : : : : 23 Bellflower (In -- League Place)
: : : : : : : 24 Hemet (In -- league place or at-large)
: : : : : : : 25 Temple City (In -- league place)
: : : : : : : 26 Sierra Vista (In -- league place)
: : : : : : : 27 Katella (In -- League place)
: : : : : : : 28 Chaffey (In -- league place or at large)

: : : : : : : Potentials:
: : : : : : : 29 Paraclete (league place or at-large)
: : : : : : : 30 La Sierra (league place)
: : : : : : : 31 Don Lugo (league place)
: : : : : : : 32 Wilson (league place despite 3-20 record)

: : : : : : : Long Shots:
: : : : : : : 33 Price (currently 8-11 must win out)
: : : : : : : 34 Bell Gardens (10-10 but last 4 are tough)
: : : : : : : 35 Citrus Valley (maybe 4th in league but lost tonight to drop to 5th)

: : : : : : : The other 23 teams are pretty much out.. a couple decent teams in tough leagues...

: : : : : : : So my best guess is 28 are pretty much locked (with a couple of those having to win a game or two, but should) Of the 4 potentials, pretty sure at least 1-2 make it and maybe all 4... If all 4 potentials make it or 1 of the longshots pulls through, we could have 32 in the bracket, but I will settle on 30.
: : : : : : Open to advice from fellow coaches. I coach a team who is in a very tough league and all the teams are in higher divisions. I purposely scheduled a rough pre season because I was unaware of the new rule. My fault. Because of our league standings we will never make playoffs but I stand by my values of playing hard teams in pre season. So I guess next year I need to schedule a marshmallow pre season? Sounds like we are going back to the 10 game rule. We have yet to play anyone in our division. All teams have been above. Open to advice? I like to ply a tough pre season schedule. Now I see some teams are going to get in because they played very easy pre seasons? Thoughts...thanks all

: : : : : : The rule is fine the way it is, if you can't crack.500 then you have no business playing in CIF championship pool. Tough pre-season schedule? That's on you, no one put a gun on your head to sign up to those events. Move on and be wise next season. Cry babies, smh

: : : : This coach is clearly not a "cry baby" as you put it. They said they were unaware of the rule and it is their own fault.

: : : : They were looking for advice as to how to balance playing good teams to get better vs. playing easy teams just to make the playoffs since they are in a hard league.

: : : : Lighten up.

: : : :Ignorance of rules is no excuse. Move on....

: : Hey Coach,
: : I coach a 3A team listed above... first all I will address the ignorance issue... This coach and 90% of the coaches nad no idea what division they or their opponents would be in because CIF kept it close to the vest and hardly anyone even knew the scoring system that was being used. Let's look at Flintridge Prep... last year they were in 5AA, so if you scheduled them on a 2 year home and away, this year the power points jumped from D5 to D3, which is significant. Scheduling outside of league is often done a year or two ahead so most coaches could not adjust to the new format this season. I could show you a dozen more examples, but hopefully you can comprehend with this line interpretation.

: : As for leagues, I will use FP again. Their league is all D4 and D5 schools, so they are the big dog. Schools like Rancho Verde, Los Osos and St. Lucy's are all in leagues with D1 and D2 teams- much tougher road.

: : So, coach I think you will need to seek opportunities to garner wins outside of league. If you know you are going 0-10 or 2-8 in league then you need to go 12-2 outside of league. If you know you are going 12-2 or 10-0 in league then I would say to schedule tougher outside of league.

: : Now that we know the formula, you can see where teams will fall next year. Remember they count 66% the recent year and 33% 3 years ago. You pretty much can establish your point total for the year right now. I will assume that the cutoffs will be roughly the same, but slight deviation is unavoidable. Depending on how our team does in playoffs, we will either stay on 3A or jump to 3AA.

: : Bottom line is if you know you will have a poor league record then YES seek out gimmes so your girls can experience playoffs or continue to play tough competition and teach the girls the value of hard work and improvement despite the record. Comes down to what you are trying to achieve. I personally try to mix it all up. We have played 6 D1s and the girls have valuable experience but not a great record in those 6 games. 4 D1s came from tournament play where we were just trying to get good competition. Hope that helps and now that everyone knows the rules I am sure some will look for cupcake city and some will look for the challenges. Either way, good luck.
: Thanks so much for the advice, mr. ignorance...u r ignorant. My first year at the school, was unaware of the rule, so I am completely aware it is my fault, however, will continue to play tough teams because it is better for my girls. To my fellow coaches, really appreciate the advice. We are all here for each other. As it should be.

Really all this fairness crap is unfair to so many. Just play for a City Championship, then a County Championship, then a Southern California Championship all in one division! Three games a week and you're all done in the same amount of time. Play Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Easy! Who cares about winning a CIF championship in a lousy division? It's a joke and everyone knows it.


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