Re: Question for coaches who vote on rankings

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Posted by Coach Neil on January 31, 2018 at 09:58:16:

In Reply to: Re: Question for coaches who vote on rankings posted by Attn Coach Neil and D5 coach on January 31, 2018 at 03:41:43:

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Coaches,

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : I have done rankings with a couple of different schools for about a decade. Recently, I was told by the coach who collects and compiles the rankings that "In addition, no team can be ranked above a league team if they place lower in league standings." Has anybody been told this before? I have never heard of this, ever. In one way it makes since; however, there is a team in our division that has only played 6 (not a typo) total games. They are 5-1 and in first place in their league. I refuse to vote for them. Also, there is a league where the 3rd place team beat the 2nd place team, and I honestly feel the 3rd place team is better. I am just wondering if anybody else has ever heard of this mandatory ruling from CIF. Any insight would be appreciated.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : Iím the cordinatotor for 3A and I can tell you that has never been told to us.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : Some of you may never have been told of it but it is in the playoff bulletin (released Jan 23, 2018) and has been there for a long while (see the note at the end of the paragraph).

: : : : : : : : : : : : : Adjustments to Seeding: Adjustments to this procedure would be made if the seeds in the same half/quarter of the bracket were from the same league. Another adjustment may become necessary in order to ensure that the No. 1 and 2 entries from the same league are placed in opposite halves of the overall bracket. Note: Throughout this process, a league No. 2 entry may not be seeded higher than the No. 1 entry from the same league, nor may a No. 3 league entry be seeded higher than the No. 2 entry from the same league.

: : : : : : : : : : : : What you posted sounds like an adjustment after the seeding was would be sent in. Doesnít sound like how coaches have to vote. Like I said, in our preseason meeting and in our weekly emails, it has not once been mentioned.

: : : : : : : : : : : Lets say you are right, (which you are not) if CIF adjusts your polls after all the coaches vote, then your poll will look nothing like you sent in. Isn't it better to do it beforehand. That way your poll won't be adjusted by CIF. I promise though, you will get the memo from SCIBCA and CIF. Either way its a CIF rule.

: : : : : : : : : : Not saying Iím right or wrong, just saying it has never been mentioned to us. Guy asked a question and I gave my best answer. If I get that memo, I will adjust accordingly and mentioned that to the coaches in my division. However, until now, that hasnít been mentioned to us.

: : : : : : : : : It is a rule in the CIF blue book, and if your poll has a team or two that are ranked lower than a team in their league who is placed higher in league, they are going to totally rearrange your polls that you have worked hard on all year. My best advice is make sure this is done before it gets to CIF so people voting be aware. A good coordinator will give you league placing in advance. If your poll is in line with league placing it is likely they will not adjust it at all and your final poll will look exactly like CIF brackets. Im not sure if its a rule that your poll has to as I have never been a coordinator but our coordinator the last two years has told us the CIF rule so we all abide and most vote that way because we don't want CIF shuffling everything around.

: : : : : : : : : Hope this helps D5 coach

: : : : : : : : Thank you so much for the insight. I understand that CIF will rearrange the brackets accordingly. My question was is it mandatory that I vote that way. That is what my D5 coordinator told me, but in 10 years I had never heard of that. But the insight is appreciated.

: : : : : : : I am not sure if it is mandatory. Probably strongly suggested. Only experienced coordinators would know that answer. But since its a CIF rule it makes sense that they would. Just a guess. Best advice is keep track of it and on the last poll make sure you know the league standing. Thats what I do.

: : : : : : The rankings that come out are always modified when the playoff brackets come out. Lets say team A is 23 -4 and has been ranked 3rd all year in Div 2AA. Team B is 16-10 and ranked 12 in the same division, but in league, team B beat team A and finished higher in the league standings. When they go into the playoffs, team B will be seeded higher than team A regardless of their rankings because of where they finished in league.

: : : : :
: : : : : I get adjusting seedings based on league finish. If you finish higher in your league (or win the tie breaker) then you should get the higher seed.

: : : : : But the polls?

: : : : : Who cares? Polls are really just for people to talk/brag/complain about.

: : : : : And a team may be viewed as a better team (ranking) than a team that finished ahead of them in their league for various reasons. Injuries, eligibility issues, etc. all can come into play.

: : : : CIF will change brackets due to league considerations. One year my team was ranked 7, but we had to play the 1 in the quarters because they wanted to avoid league opponents until semis. Was it ridiculous? Yes... but it is a bit understandable. If 2 teams are in a division, they will put them on opposite sides. To back up Coach Neill, no one tells us how to vote. We can vote a 3rd pkace team ahead of a 2nd place team if we want, but CIF will give preference to the 2nd place team.

: : : I have been a coordinator on the boys side for 10 years and am voting on the girls side although not a coordinator. It is mandatory for the last poll. CIF sends out a bulletin on the last week.

: : Got an email today from someone in charge that discussed a few things, including this. This is what it said, "Lastly, do not attempt to manipulate the poll for teams within the same league. For example, Team A is ranked 4th in the poll while Team B is ranked 7th, but Team B is 2nd in the league while Team A is 3rd in the same league. CIF has instructed us to send them the poll as it is determined by the voters and CIF will adjust the bracket according to their rules. This is the job of the CIF, not the Top 16 poll voters."

: : Just an FYI.

: Here is a perfect example. In D5AAA Archer and Pilibos are ranked next to each other. Lets say Archer finishes ahead of Pilibos and the voters somehow put Pilibos ahead. I have seen many many times when the poll gets turned in to CIF and THEY HAVE TO ADJUST IT that a team like Pilibos gets screwed and they drop them either way lower or not seeded at all! For that reason its important voters know league standing and try to vote that way. Why put it in the hands of CIF. If you are informed and know the rules then vote accordingly. Thats all I am saying. Last year in our poll that happened. We had the 15 ranked team finish 3rd and the 12th ranked team finish 4th. Poll got turned in and poof, the 12th ranked team got unranked. What they should have done is with the seedings but it didn't turn out that way.

: Hope this helps

I get what you are saying, but I am not sure you get what I am saying. The original question was if it was mandatory and all I am saying is it isn't. Yes you are right and CIF will adjust some things, but no it is not mandatory if a coach didn't want to vote that way.

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