Re: Open Division

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Posted by Pig on October 09, 2017 at 17:03:44:

In Reply to: Re: Open Division posted by Coach on October 09, 2017 at 13:02:45:

: : : : : : : How many teams will they take in the OPEN Division this season? I've heard it will only be 8, any truth to this?

: : : : : : : Open Division Teams:
: : : : : : : 1. Windward
: : : : : : : 2. Etiwanda
: : : : : : : 3. LB Poly
: : : : : : : 4. Mater Dei
: : : : : : : 5. Sierra Canyon
: : : : : : : 6. Alemany
: : : : : : : 7. Harvard Westlake
: : : : : : : 8. Serra
: : : : : : : 9. Chaminade
: : : : : : : 10. Rosary
: : : : : : : 11. Fairmont Prep
: : : : : : : 12. Orangewood
: : : : : : : 13. LB Millikan

: : : : : : : Anyone else?

: : : : : : Everyone that has talking and it sounds like only 8 teams will be selected to the Open Division. But who knows. CIF didn't like that there were teams that were tanking to miss out on being selected for the Open Division. There was also talk about teams on both the boys and the girls side purposely losing games in the Open Division to better set themselves up for the State playoffs. CIF didn't like that so they want to trim the fat and only take 8 teams so the product isn't watered down. But there is still talk that CIF might take 16 teams. That is a lot of money being left off if only 8 teams go. If CIF takes 8 teams it will make the Division 1 playoffs better because there will be some very good teams left to battle it out. But it will really suck for a team that had some success recently to have to still play a Chaminade or Gardena Serra in the playoffs rather than playing a team that is similar to them like how it is going to be in the other divisions. There are still some good teams outside of Division 1 that would make the Open Division if there were 16 teams and taking these teams out of their perspective division would make for better and more equal competition. I am for that, because I would find it troubling if a team would have a cake walk to the finals and to a championship in a lower division. Especially, when there are teams up in the higher divisions that will have to fight tooth and nail to win a championship. I liked how CIF had it years ago with good teams spread throughout the divisions. If there was an "elite" team down in Division 4AA then put them in the Open Division with the others. But now pretty much every good team is up in Division 1. Is that fair? Yes and no. Like some people have said, let the teams that recruit and get transfers battle it out in Division 1. Why should the good teams up in Division 1 suffer so the schools that finish 3rd and 4th place in a league battle it out for a championship in a lower division? I thought the Open Division was to fix all of this. Put the best teams up against each other and let them battle it out. You can't tell me that all 39 teams in Division 1 all recruit or bend the rules while the other 530+ school in the Southern Section are good little neighborhood programs and would never do anything like that. Please, but if any of those other schools do find success then they start complaining when they get up to Division 1 or to the higher divisions.

: : : : : : Here is something to think about. If CIF only takes 8 teams to the Open Division then CIF is promoting teams to be mediocre. Good teams in Division 1 are now trying to find ways to drop out of Division 1 for next year or the year after that. I am sure there are schools looking to do the same thing in the other divisions. But let that sink in, the good teams that are in Division 1 are trying to find ways to drop a division. Some of them have already found the formula and now others will be following suit. Then what will CIF have to do because there will be 8-10 teams in Division 2AA next year that should be in Division 1. Hooray that there will be 8 teams and not 2 but still. The Open Division is needed to regulate everything. So by only taking 8 schools this season and maybe the future will only hurt CIF and the other divisions in the long run because this whole equality thing will be thrown out of wack because good or "elite" teams will be infiltrating the lower divisions and thus making it harder for the schools that play by the rules to have any success. Then we will really hear complaining then.

: : : : :
: : : : : I don't think there should be a fixed number of Open teams.

: : : : : It should vary year to year. 8 minimum, but maybe 10, maybe 12, maybe 16 depending on how the season goes. Nothing wrong with byes.

: : : : : As for State, teams should be placed in the appropriate divisions regardless of how Open playoffs go. Just because you have a bad game or two (maybe a player was sick, nicked up, etc.) doesn't mean you should drop to a lower division.

: : : : : The idea was to make each division as competitive as possible, especially past the first round.

: : : : : Now you have teams scheduling down to avoid Open this year or drop divisions in subsequent years. And they have to schedule weak teams to ensure getting to .500.

: : : : : Maybe the answer is take Open, then have 16 team divisions. But CIF won't do that because it will mean lost $$$$, and teams that are 11-11 with power wins against Sisters of the Blind will complain they aren't in the playoffs.

: : : : I Believe CIF is doing a good job of trying to balance out the Divisions based on the last two years giving double the power ratings for the previous year. Yes, some teams will drop cause they had a bad year, then win the next, move up and then repeat the process and that's the way it's suppose to work. Stop crying cause you don't have an easier way to the Finals. CIF has already made it easier in the lower divisions for you. Also, I doubt that teams tank games. All players and coaches want to win games. What this new arrangement does is give more points to those teams who schedule light competition and win so if those teams had intelligent Coaches they'd schedule a more competitive schedule where they'd challenge their players, getting them ready for the competitive playoffs if they were or quality so playing competition and losing is a plus plus because you'll drop a division like you should if you're not winning.

: : :
: : : I don't believe you are correct about scheduling.

: : : My understanding is you get more points for losing to a higher division team than beating a lower division team.

: : : The idea is you should want to move up/play the best competition.

: : : However, unless you an Open Division team with a legitimate shot of winning, that is not the case and you want to move down to be able to win CIF.

: : : And if you don't think that teams haven't tanked in Open playoffs to drop in State, you would be mistaken. Play hard first game, lose, then maybe not do everything you can to win second game so you can drop to D2 and make a serious State run.

: : If you are trying for equity then if a team doesn't win its own division don't move it up a division because they played tougher bigger schools in non league. If they are getting better and yet still not winning a game in their division in playoffs, don't move them up, at least keep them in the division they were if you don't move them down a division.

: The new system is flawed. My team lost a close game to a mediocre division 4 school. If I had scheduled Mater Dei instead of that one game and lost to them, I would be one division higher this season. That's just one game difference.

: The ladder system is the best way to ensure no one is tanking or scheduling weak just to take their CIF division. Make make every division a 64 team division. You fill the 32 team bracket with automatic qualifiers and fill the remaining spots by ranking. The 16 teams that win their first round game will move up a division next season. The 16 teams that lose the first round game will remain in that division. The 32 that did not qualify for CIF playoffs will go into a drawing and 16 will move down a division. After the first year, any team that was in the drawing to move down but did not, will automatically move down the next year if they fail to qualify for playoffs again. Obviously the top division teams don't move up and the bottom division teams don't move down.

That makes too much sense so it won't fly.

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