Re: Three CIF Champs from last year?

Posted by Not so fast on November 07, 2009 at 00:27:16:

In Reply to: Re: Three CIF Champs from last year? posted by doesn't address the issue on November 06, 2009 at 11:20:32:

: : : : : : I am a fan of the new system CIF has implemented to provide equity in Divisions but it seems there are still some bugs in it. I guess my question is, how are there three 2008/2009 CIF champs in 4A this year? And how does Bell Jeff who obviously recruits with the best of them get to be in 4A? I am a fan of a 4A sized school who has no way or desire to recruit anyone. My second question is, how do we compete with the recruiters of the world? If there would ever be a senerio where we could compete with same sized schools that don't recruit we would do very well each year. For the last 25 years or so we have been knocked out of the playoffs by teams that recruit. Maybe there just aren't that many that don't recruit these days. Bell Jeff was in the Big Division of the San Diego Classic this past summer, put them in 1AA. I also think it was laughable that Cajon was in the "small schools" and "rebuilding" schools divsion in San Diego. I'm glad Oaks Christian beat them in the 2A final, but as we know, Oaks recruits with the best of them as well. ... but on the postive side there is nothing more enjoyable than beating a team that, shall we say, bends the rules.

: : : : : I also like the new system but it still has its problems. I coach at a relatively small public school 4AA that doesnt recuit plays and with home grown talent. However I find it hard to compete with some of the private schools that can recruit and my division is full of private schools. So what do I do. Coach my hardest, teach my girls it is more than basketball and hopefully one day with all of our hard work we can win a cif championship. If we don't don't life isn't over and we will try again the following year.

: : : : I hate the new system, and think we should either do what volleyball, softball, and soccer do (competitive balance) for their sectional playoffs, only basketball and track compete by enrollment in the southern section.

: : : : People in 4A are complaining how do you feel if you are Alhambra and Schurr type teams in Division IAA. They are in the highest division with 10 teams who have enough points to move up a division. Neither of those schools recruit but due to their enrollment they are assigned to compete with (all teams who have more than enough points to move up):
: : : : Cajon
: : : : Colony
: : : : LB Poly
: : : : Lynwood
: : : : Miller
: : : : Redondo
: : : : San Clemente
: : : : Silverado
: : : : Troy
: : : : ETW
: : : : They will make the playoffs most years, but how many playoff games do you think they will win under this system if it stays in place?

: : : : And to make matters worst in IAA, there are no bad teams (or teams with little recent playoff success) who moved down into the division. In 4AA you have 5 teams move down into the division and 4A has 4 teams who have moved down. Enrollment has no correlation to basketball success and if you are going to use enrollment you need to seperate public and private schools.

: : : ETW... have been to the CIF Quarters and Semi finals more then any team in the IE and have yet to WIN one... Colon, Cajon, Miller, and Silverado have had lease trips over those years and made it... could this be the year????

: : I would love to do enrollment with variations like they are now with the exception of one divison for private schools like they do in other states!

: That still doesn't address the issue of moving good teams up to play with schools with larger enrollments. You are equating success with larger enrollments which has no correlation. Every team that was raised into Div IAA is still a public school, you just choose to put them with other large schools like Alhambra, Schurr, etc. Some of these non-powerhouse teams make the playoffs every year but have no chance of getting out of the first round becuase you overload the top division with teams with past success. You need to either stay with purely enrollment or go competitive balance, mixing the two kills the large enrollment schools in the top division who will never drop down a division but are placed with those teams strictly because they a lot of students at their school. At least if you leave it with just enrollment the teams in IAA are not "punished" as much.

: No other division in CIF-SS has 10 teams who have enough points to move up a division based on recent playoff success. Most of them have 4 to 6 but they also have 4 to 6 teams who have NO recent playoff success moved down into their division (I don't think any of these teams who moved down are a big threat to any division in the playoffs).

I have not looked at all of the teams moving down, but I would think that a larger school moving down 1-2 divisions could be competitive. I have not analyzed it much, but if a team moves down and has improvement, then they could be heard from come playoff time. I imagine someone in the 3AA - 4A will surprise due to being dropped.

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Comments:	: : : : : : : I am a fan of the new system CIF has implemented to provide equity in Divisions but it seems there are still some bugs in it. I guess my question is, how are there three 2008/2009 CIF champs in 4A this year? And how does Bell Jeff who obviously recruits with the best of them get to be in 4A? I am a fan of a 4A sized school who has no way or desire to recruit anyone. My second question is, how do we compete with the recruiters of the world? If there would ever be a senerio where we could compete with same sized schools that don't recruit we would do very well each year. For the last 25 years or so we have been knocked out of the playoffs by teams that recruit. Maybe there just aren't that many that don't recruit these days. Bell Jeff was in the Big Division of the San Diego Classic this past summer, put them in 1AA. I also think it was laughable that Cajon was in the "small schools" and "rebuilding" schools divsion in San Diego. I'm glad Oaks Christian beat them in the 2A final, but as we know, Oaks recruits with the best of them as well. ... but on the postive side there is nothing more enjoyable than beating a team that, shall we say, bends the rules. : : : : : : I also like the new system but it still has its problems. I coach at a relatively small public school 4AA that doesnt recuit plays and with home grown talent. However I find it hard to compete with some of the private schools that can recruit and my division is full of private schools. So what do I do. Coach my hardest, teach my girls it is more than basketball and hopefully one day with all of our hard work we can win a cif championship. If we don't don't life isn't over and we will try again the following year. : : : : : I hate the new system, and think we should either do what volleyball, softball, and soccer do (competitive balance) for their sectional playoffs, only basketball and track compete by enrollment in the southern section. : : : : : People in 4A are complaining how do you feel if you are Alhambra and Schurr type teams in Division IAA. They are in the highest division with 10 teams who have enough points to move up a division. Neither of those schools recruit but due to their enrollment they are assigned to compete with (all teams who have more than enough points to move up): : : : : : Cajon : : : : : Colony : : : : : LB Poly : : : : : Lynwood : : : : : Miller : : : : : Redondo : : : : : San Clemente : : : : : Silverado : : : : : Troy : : : : : ETW : : : : : They will make the playoffs most years, but how many playoff games do you think they will win under this system if it stays in place? : : : : : And to make matters worst in IAA, there are no bad teams (or teams with little recent playoff success) who moved down into the division. In 4AA you have 5 teams move down into the division and 4A has 4 teams who have moved down. Enrollment has no correlation to basketball success and if you are going to use enrollment you need to seperate public and private schools. : : : : ETW... have been to the CIF Quarters and Semi finals more then any team in the IE and have yet to WIN one... Colon, Cajon, Miller, and Silverado have had lease trips over those years and made it... could this be the year???? : : : I would love to do enrollment with variations like they are now with the exception of one divison for private schools like they do in other states! : : That still doesn't address the issue of moving good teams up to play with schools with larger enrollments. You are equating success with larger enrollments which has no correlation. Every team that was raised into Div IAA is still a public school, you just choose to put them with other large schools like Alhambra, Schurr, etc. Some of these non-powerhouse teams make the playoffs every year but have no chance of getting out of the first round becuase you overload the top division with teams with past success. You need to either stay with purely enrollment or go competitive balance, mixing the two kills the large enrollment schools in the top division who will never drop down a division but are placed with those teams strictly because they a lot of students at their school. At least if you leave it with just enrollment the teams in IAA are not "punished" as much. : : No other division in CIF-SS has 10 teams who have enough points to move up a division based on recent playoff success. Most of them have 4 to 6 but they also have 4 to 6 teams who have NO recent playoff success moved down into their division (I don't think any of these teams who moved down are a big threat to any division in the playoffs). : I have not looked at all of the teams moving down, but I would think that a larger school moving down 1-2 divisions could be competitive. I have not analyzed it much, but if a team moves down and has improvement, then they could be heard from come playoff time. I imagine someone in the 3AA - 4A will surprise due to being dropped.
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