Posted by Dave Reville on November 02, 2020 at 08:20:36:
In Reply to: Re: Scary times... posted by Hospitals are not full .. on November 02, 2020 at 07:24:05:
: : : : : : : : : We have no hope in California as our political structure is built on the people needing government. This political structure is dominant as the sheep in our state are on auto-pilot, they can't think for themselves. This situation is a tell all, because the lock down affects everyone and everyone is sitting back and taking it. If you are scared of the virus and don't have some pre-existing condition that puts you at higher risk, then you are sadly misinformed about it's potential impact on your health. Our kids are pawns in a power game. D's and R's need to put down their bullshit political banners, unite, and oust these political misfits. Most Californians want the same things. Don't let the political party you think cares about you corrupt your common sense, your decency, and your responsibility to be a good neighbor.
: : : : : : : : :These stats come from an 8 month sample size. What more do you want? Again, it is a fact that there is a 99% chance of survival from coronavirus for people 65 years or younger. And it is a fact that you have less than a 2% chance of even catching coronavirus in CA if you are 65 years or younger. These numbers do NOT support kids not being able to go to school or being able to participate in organized athletics. The "coronavirus" affect on our kids for decades to come will be a far bigger problem than what is being experienced now. Kids are now programmed with fear and just revert back to a "safe place" of more screen time.
: : : : : : : *8 month sample size with only one month in flu season (the initial month).
: : : : : : : Saying people over 65 have just a 2% chance of catching it is true ONLY if those people continue the behavior they adhered to in March (CA shut down before another NYC could happen). The behavior exhibited over the summer would cause a massive outbreak in the winter, it's already happening in LA County after those ridiculous Armenian marches.
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: : : : : : : "If you are scared of the virus and don't have some pre-existing condition that puts you at higher risk, then you are sadly misinformed about it's potential impact on your health."
: : : : : : : No one healthy should be afraid of it, but rather should be scared of spreading it to others. It would be like some people in London during the blitz not obeying the blackout, because they put all their stuff in the cellar and their houses were tear-downs anyway. But, they leave their fireplace burning because they don't want their house to get cold, or their cat to be left in the dark. Even though they don't care about their own house being bombed, the Luftwaffe will be able to bomb the surrounding area with more precision. If enough houses have fireplaces running, the pilots may be able to triangulate some more important targets.
: : : : : : : Lastly, both conservative and liberal-run countries have enacted lockdowns, this is not limited to the USA, it's not some political creation.
: : : : : : :Again, the fear mongering continues about the the flu season, etc.
: : : : : : When is the question about the long term effects on our kids going to be answered? This is brought up time after time and it is completely ignored. I am much more worried about how these kids respond psychologically in the years to come than a virus which has a 98% survival rate(for people of ALL ages). We are screwing our kids.
: : : : : Bringing up the flu season isn't fear mongering. The Spanish Flu was far less deadly in the summer than winter. Even with the lack of sanitation and the state of medicine at the time, Americans from a century ago were able to enjoy summer without overflowing hospitals and thousands of deaths per day from their pandemic. Notice how Brazil fared during their winter this June through September (not well). Until late April (October for them), they were doing fine. Then they went from hundreds of deaths per day to thousands, even with most of the country in some form of lockdown.
: : : : : Back to 2020, kids would be shut inside even more when teachers refuse to go to work after hospitals are full. If both right and left-wing governments worldwide are coming to the same conclusion that reducing human contact is the only way to slow the spread, where is the conspiracy? Don't be so Ameri-centric!
: : : : : Let's imagine a world where we stay open, and are the only major country to do so. All Americans would be banned from international travel, at least without a two week quarantine with daily testing. We would also lose all international tourism. "Oh but Americans would go to other places in the USA so we keep our money here!", that's another problem. Many tourist destinations are around large cities and that would add to the crowding.
: : : : : In the face of such wanton rejection of science, and hazardous working conditions, many doctors would break their oaths and quit. You'd be surprised how many doctors in rural areas are first generation immigrants, and they would probably rather do Uber and Lyft in Canada than participate in the petri dish that would be America.
: : : : : The panic and rioting that would ensue when low income (read: African American) patients are turned away disproportionately from hospitals (due to being less insured) would easily surpass the race riots of 1968. These communities would be the hardest hit and most ignored.
: : : : : There's far more at stake this winter than four months of sports.
: : : : :Still doesn't answer the question. What you are describing re: hospital capacity hasn't happened and did not happen in lockdown and therefore is again fear mongering about what ifs. In fact, quite the opposite happened, where our hospitals systems with the aid of both federal and local agencies were able to handle numbers even at the peak of the outbreak.
: : : : What we do know is our children are at risk from the largest social(no physical interaction leads to increased psychological problems), physical(no/little exercise leads to more medical problems), mental(no formal education leads to more illiteracy and breakdown of an already poor system of education), and spiritual(no church or faith based gatherings leads to more unethical behavior) let downs in modern U.S. history. This does not even touch on the economic impact which is a natural result of continuing to be restricted in daily interaction(the divide of low income will only grow larger). The result of these let downs will be far more severe to our culture in the coming years than current medical issues.
: : : : By the way, you are correct that there's far more at stake than sports, because this affects every aspect of our children's lives.
: : : My answer is no, kids can't go back to school nationwide. Leaders of the most populated and thus at risk urban areas have to consider the overwhelming probability hospitals would overflow if guidelines were adjusted to allow in-person school. By opening schools, the state would force it's own hand to lift virtually every other restriction, or face litigation.
: : : Much of the country isn't under the strict lockdown orders that CA and the Eastern Seaboard and some other places have enacted. Many states even played HS football starting in September, and had some fans.
: : : But even though there are no school sports in CA, don't think for a minute kids aren't training and playing sports in small groups. The lack of in-person school is hurting many, but how many teachers would be willing to go back to work right now? Staggering schedules seems like a great idea, until you realize that doubles the amount of time teachers need to work, not to mention all the other overhead involved.
: : : Every time someone mentions "fear mongering", I have to wonder if they understand exponential growth combined with the lag in data and the delay in the onset of the disease itself. Boris Johnson wanted to keep the UK open, but the data he saw today changed his mind. If a world or even local leader were to wait until hospitals were overflowing to make a decision, it would be too late as cases and hospitalizations lag for a week or two even after a total lockdown. NYC was running out of hospital beds and had to request one of four Navy Hospital Ships to dock - just so people without COVID could have a safe place to go.
: : : Some think the virus wouldn't spread if only the sick would stay home. Sounds logical, but even if we could trust this whole nation to adhere to this, the virus is transmissable for up to two days before symptoms become obvious. While it is true that asymptomatic cases rarely spread the disease, presymptomatic cases are highly contagious. The host's immune system just hasn't identified and begun to fight the virus at that point, but it is there and spreading.
: : : In summation, a risky move to open schools in dense urban areas would lead to stricter lockdowns that would ultimately disrupt life and the economy more than the current guidelines do. This is a bad place to live if you have a "Don't Tread On Me" attitude. We give up many freedoms to live in a city.
: : It's clear we don't yet have a handle on this virus, or any kind of consensus on how to proceed. Seems to me we should take the safest path forward until we know more, especially about longterm effects on teens/young adults.
: : We've asked schools to reopen without providing them with the necessary funding to do this safely. Our leaders have failed us miserably on every level. Remember that at the voting booth tomorrow, and stay safe!
: : Lying liberal !
I'll admit to being liberal - and proud of it - but please point out where I've lied. Do you think our schools are adequately funded to deal with Covid? Do you think our national leaders have handled this crisis well? Or do you just want to throw insults to deflect the discussion?
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